by G. Jack Urso
Mike Ratti,
drummer for the Hot Hero Band, has been instrumental in helping me navigate the
complicated and complex nature of the music business. Whenever I have a question about the music for
the series, people in the industry, how things got done, and how they’ve
change, Mike has been my go-to man. A master raconteur, Mike always has a story
or two to illustrate his point, and he paints those stories with details that
make a writer’s job much easier.
After having
focused on other aspects of the series in the past year, the Hot Hero Sandwich
Project returns its attention back on the music with interviews with Music
Coordinator Jimmy Biondolillo and Sound Engineer Ed Stasium, and an upcoming feature
highlighting Hot Hero Sandwich’s Music
Director, the legendary Felix Pappalardi of the band Mountain and producer of
some of the era’s top Rock acts, including Creem, The Youngbloods, and Hot Tuna,
among many others.
In this
interview, Mike gives us some background on the industry of the era leading up
to the Seventies and reveals how Hot Hero
Sandwich producers Bruce and Carole Hart inadvertently got Mike Ratti fired and along the way we’ll encounter Lynyrd Skynyrd, Ted Nugent, and find out how Stephen Stills came to perform on the show.
____________________________________________________
The
Way We Were
Ae13U: Mike, can you give me some background
on what the recording session was like leading up to the Seventies. From my
limited understanding, the musicians seemed to have had less input than the executives
in the past than by the late 70s when the bands, at least the big ones, began to
exert more control.
Mike Ratti: It was set up that you go
into a studio. You had to have somebody engineer it. You had to have somebody
produce it, meaning you had to have somebody representing the record label and
all the powers to be, why you were in that room, and then you had to have
somebody document that — a contractor.
Caricature of Mike Ratti by Hot Hero Sandwich writer Sherry Coben (1979). |
Every session
was like that in the music business, no matter who you were. As the business
became as popular as it did in the late 50s, now 60s, where now you're having
bands and musicians, it wasn't a free-for-all. They didn't allow musicians,
managers, agents, to be a part of it. It was like when you come into the room —
look at all those old pictures of The Beatles [in a studio], what’s everyone
wearing?
Ae13U: Suits and ties.
Mike Ratti: Because it was, you know,
even across the pond, it was the same way.
Ae13U: Right.
Mike Ratti: More and more of the
business became more and more of, I mean the big money, the big concerts, the
big bands, and then I'd say some probably somewhere in the 70s it started to
change over where you know we're not going in with the producer, the contractor,
we're bringing in our own bands . . . with the Byrds, with the Mamas and the Papas,
with Led Zeppelin. . . . You did not need a contractor or a producer hired from
the label.
Ae13U: So, by 1979, during the production
of Hot Hero Sandwich, that was the
waning days of the old model, or maybe it was surpassed by then?
Mike Ratti: Yeah, it could be a window
of years, but yes, that’s exactly as you say Jack.
Ae13U: By now I've got nearly every scene
of Hot Hero memorized, including the
music and the bumpers.
On most series, the soundtrack music would
be played by contracting musicians, but during my research the only actual
music I hear on the series, besides the guest performances and some music
videos [like Donovan’s “I Love My Shirt”],
is music the Hot Hero Band itself performs, the songs, bumpers, and instrumentals
— no one else, correct?
Mike Ratti: Right. I was there every recording
session. I was there every meeting — and “I” meaning “we” [referring to the Hot Hero Band] . . . We’re not here to discredit anyone,
just set the record straight.
Ae13U: Having a house band for the show really
changed the old way of doing things, particularly with Felix on board.
____________________________________________________
Come
Together . . .
Ae13U: Alright, let's pick up the story when the Hot Hero
Band was brought together. This somehow involved the Rex Smith Band, right?
Mike Ratti: The Rex Band with Rex Smith
and myself, we were disbanded by the management company Leber and Krebs [Note: founded by legendary managers Stan
Leber and David Krebs] for Rex to go on to do Sooner or Later [1979 TV movie] with the Harts. I think I might
have told you this story, but we got fired because we played Madison Square
Garden. That's where, that's where Bruce and Carol [Hart] in the audience saw
Rex.
Ae13U: Fired? I didn’t hear that story
before!
Mike Ratti: Oh, what? You've never heard
that story?
Ae13U: I never heard that story!
Mike Ratti: Oh, alright. Sit back . . . so, the band Rex [fronted by Rex Smith] was on tour,
right? First of all, let me back up. We were managed by Leber-Krebs.
Leber-Krebs were a big management company, which back in the 70s and 80s had to
have. You couldn't play the game, be a part of this, unless you had a manager
or management company. They were the ones that had the contacts with everybody.
Ae13U: Right.
Mike Ratti: They managed . . . Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, AC/DC . . . Humble
Pie when they [both] were in the states. So, they acted as the management
company when the band was here. When they were overseas, they had their own
management company and that's how the business was.
So, they [Leber-Krebs]
had signed Rex a deal with CBS Records for five albums. In other words, they
said the CBS records we have this artist, we have this band, we're going to put
them out there, our responsibility, we take all the financial end, whatever . .
. Well, we did one album and went on tour for a year. Did another album and
went on tour for a year . . . and we were on tour with Ted Nugent and the co-headliners
were Ted Nugent and Lynyrd Skynyrd.
Ae13U: Oh, man, what a ticket!
Mike Ratti: So, we were on tour. We
were the opening act for those two bands each night since they were co-headliners.
One band would end the night, then, the next night, the other band would close.
We played with them into October of 1977 and we were hanging out with Lynyrd Skynyrd that night, they said, yeah, “We'll see you up in New York at Madison
Square Garden.” November 10th was the date. Same building, three bands. “We'll [Lynyrd Skynyrd] see you up at the Garden because we're heading to whichever gigs you
guys are heading.”
Back up north
two days later, we're on the road, it was October 20th and we got word the
plane went down and there was the accident [which killed three members of the
band and serious hurt the others]. So, my first thought is. “Uh oh, there goes
the gig in Madison Square Garden. My family's not going to be able to come and
see me.”
Ae13U: What happened afterwards?
Mike Ratti: We're still playing,
working our way up because we're getting closer to the city.
That was brought
up at some point. I couldn't tell you exactly when and it was. It was that the
show was going on. Ron Delsener, the Big New York promoter, said, “The show
will go on with Ted Nugent and Rex, and that's what I said to everybody, “We're
going to get the shit kicked out of us. They’re gonna boo us. They’re gonna boo
us!”
Ae13U: Replacing Lynyrd Skynyrd under
those circumstances, not a good position.
Mike Ratti: We were like, “Oh, man! Oh,
man!” So, we finally we did that date. We did, it went over. I mean, people were still talking. WNEW and Allison
Steele [legendary NY DJ] raved about
it the next day on the radio. She said that opening act . . . I've never seen a
band like that . . . we got RAVE reviews.
It was in November,
November 10th, We played couple of shows after that and then came the holidays
. . .
Ae13U: November 10th, what year would that be?
Mike Ratti: 1977. November 10 is the same day as the
first episode of Hot Hero Sandwich [Nov. 10, 1979]. That's why this day
means a lot to me — same day.
A ticket for the Nov. 10, 1977 show Lynyrd Sknyrd never made. (Uncle G's Classic Rock Concert Memories). |
Ae13U: So [after the holidays] in 78, we
go into practice for a third album. They decide to send us up to Woodstock [NY]
and rehearse and record what we're doing with Eddie Offord, a big producer, he
produced Yes. So, he had a studio, I believe it was at
Levon Helm’s barn, the one that burnt down.
So, we're
recording and we're doing the songs that we're preparing for the third album
live to see how it sounds. Eddie is just recording us and its big barn, and
we're up there for a couple of weeks and around February we take some time off
— and this is as early spring — I get a phone call from Leber-Krebs management
at my parents’ house, which I don't live there, I just happen to be there
raking the leaves, and I'm thinking it is an emergency or something's wrong,
right? I didn't even know they had my parents’ number.
And I was told,
“Hi Mike . . . We're having a meeting. We need everybody there. You have to
come in.” I said, “OK, when?” She said “Tomorrow! But I need to get in touch
with Lou [Lou Van Dora, guitar] and Lars Hanson [guitar and keyboards].” Well,
Lou is on vacation in Brunswick, Georgia, where he’s from, and Lars, I think is
in the city somewhere. I could track them down. I asked what about Rex? She
said, don't worry about Rex.
So, I call up
Lou and he jumps on the plate and we went back in that office for meeting the
very next day . . . and it's the band minus Rex Smith, and we're having a
meeting with David Craft at his office. He says, “Guys I know we're preparing
for third album, you’re working hard, you know, we gave it a good shot . . .”
I’m biting my lip because I don't like the way that sounds.
So, we're
sitting there and he says, “What we decided to do was disband the group . . . we're
going to go a different route with Rex . . . we have an opportunity for him to be
in a made-for-TV movie special and we're going to go that route.”
So, of course,
we say, what about the band? Basically, then he thought we didn't want to accept
what he was saying. He said, “Look, the band is over. I'm putting him into a
major TV movie.”
And we asked how
did this come about? He said, “He [Rex Smith] was discovered one at one of the
shows when you played Madison Square Garden [Nov. 10, 1977]. There were writers
and producers out there that like what they saw and approached us. They tracked
us down and gave us a pitch of what they would like to do.”
We were asking
the questions and then at that point he said, “Look, the meeting is over. We’ll
settle up everything.” I asked, I said “David when can we expect our last
paycheck?” And he looked at his wrist — he did not have a watch on —and said
“Last week.”
Ae13U: Ouch! “It’s a Long Way to the Top If
You Want to Rock and Roll,” huh? Were Robert Brissette and Mark Cunningham [bassist and guitarist, respectively, for the
Hot Hero Band] in on this?
Mike Ratti: No. This is leading up to
that. This is how it led to Hot Hero.
Robert played with Rex in the band Tricks. He was asked to be in this band, but
he went back to college and he said no, I'm not quitting school again, so he
passed on it to be the bass player. We got Orville Davis to be the bass player.
Mark Cunningham was the guitar player when Rex did the demos in a band called
The Flying Tigers, which was right before this deal, he [Smith] brought tapes
up to New York and got the deal, got people interested. Mark was the guitar
player. It didn't work out. Mark went his way . . . with Rick Derringer, we
continued as Rex.
Ae13U: OK, got it.
Rex
Smith, including the Hot Hero Band’s Mark Cunningham, Robert Brissette, and Mike
Ratti, burn up the air waves in this promotional music video for the track “Superhero”
from the album Forever.
Mike Ratti: So we were told that these people in the
audience said that's the guy [Rex Smith] we want for our movie and they tracked
him down.
Ae13U: Let me get this straight. They
saw the band Rex perform at MSG on Nov. 10, 1977. Thought Rex Smith would be
perfect for their movie, reached out to the Leber-Krebs management company,
who, based on that offer, decided they were going to disband the Rex band,
correct?
Mike Ratti: Yes, based on he was going
to make a movie, they were going to pay for everything. Now, could they have
kept the band? Probably. Was that important to them, though? No, the band was
still then trying to do something, but they're saying we want to do this. We're
going to put him in the studio. We have the songs written to the movie. [Note: By Stephen Lawrence and Bruce Hart who
also wrote the Hot Hero Sandwich theme song.]
All of a sudden
it was like a “win” situation for that office based on business. They got
somebody here jumping in on their bandwagon and all of a sudden they don't have
to pay any money for this — and now they did not need us. We didn't need mean anything
to them.
Ae13U: “Welcome to the Rock and Roll
business boys. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”
Check out a segment of music from the Rex performance
on Nov. 10, 1977!
Mike Ratti: So Rex was brought into Carole
and Bruce’s stable because they saw us play November 10th, 1977, at Madison
Square Garden. With that, they then did the Sooner
or Later movie with all of those hits and that album went gold, and who
produced it? Charlie Calello.
Ae13U: Jimmy Biondolillo’s mentor! Now it
all comes together. Jimmy sat in on those sessions and that’s how Bruce and
Carole met Jimmy. [Note: Jimmy
Biondolillo became the music coordinator for Hot Hero
Sandwich. See his interview with the Project for more information.]
Mike Ratti: Right. Now fast-forward
less than a year and now the Harts have the Hot
Hero thing that they're working on and they decide they need a band.
Wouldn't it be great to have a band? The kids would love that.
They didn’t want
to get studio musicians — old guys — so the Harts said, not putting words into
their mouths, but what about the band and the musicians we used in the movie [Sooner or Later]?
Mike Ratti during the Rex Era. |
Mike Ratti: Well
. . . I had the part but I blew it Jack. I had to do a reading with Rex and
Bruce. They [his agency] sent me. The agent said, “This is his drummer. This is
his look. He can talk. He's not an actor . . . I just hung out with him for an
hour, just observing him. He's the perfect guy for you. He's the perfect
drummer.”
Well, he came
and walked into the room with the first. Bruce says, “OK, here's the line
Mikey. Just go off and do it.” And I go, “Uh . . . Uh.”
“NEXT!”
Ae13U: [Laughter]. Ah, the limelight . . .
Mike Ratti: Everybody that was in the
band [in Sooner or Later] were actors,
except for Mark [Cunningham]. Rex brought Mark in because, he said, “Look, I
want something legit and he does play and I've worked with him.”
I think I think
he felt bad that it didn't work out with Mark with the right band and Rex just
reached out and said, “Hey, I got this little bit for you. You'll be on screen,
you know, you get paid. You know how to play the guitar. It’ll be the real
deal.”
And that's how
Mark was brought in. They reached out to Mark based on that and said we need
some musicians, do you know anybody? It’s going to be kind of like Sooner or Later, except it's going to be
a TV show for kids. Mark reached out to some people and they all said, “What?”
Don't forget
this is 1979, right?
Ae13U: Right.
Mike Ratti: All the musicians are, “I'm gonna make it.
I'm gonna be Led Zeppelin. Don't tell me what to do. I'm not going to do a TV
show!” So, TV and music were separate in those days, there was no marriage like
it is today. It was totally separate.
There were a
couple of people that turned it down. He reached out to myself, to Robert
[Brissette] and Ritchie [Annunizato], his childhood friend, and that’s how the
Hot Hero Band became. Again, based on November 10th, 1977, when we played
Madison Square Garden.
Ae13U: Fantastic!
Mike Ratti: If the Harts didn’t see
that performance, there would be no Sooner
or Later, there would be no Hot Hero.
Ae13U: The two are really intertwined. It
was about that time when Felix Pappalardi was tapped for Hot Hero Sandwich.
According to a Nov. 24, 1979, Record World article,
Carole Hart said she was with a psychic friend, along with Bruce and their film
editor [presumably Hot Hero editor Patrick McMahon] who said she saw the name
“Felix,” and they all immediately knew that must be Felix Pappalardi!
Mike Ratti: I could see how that
definitely happened. Felix Pappalardi was now with Leber-Krebs [who managed Rex
Smith] and David Krebs was dealing with Carole.
Ae13U: Ok, so things are coming full
circle. Regarding the details going on in the recording sessions for the show,
there was the band, Felix, the engineer Ed Stasium. Jimmy Biondolillo was there
at times as well, right?
Mike Ratti: Jimmy did come in a few
times and I remember him sitting in the control room sitting next to Felix. He
[Jimmy] had to document that [the session work] to NBC, the Harts, their
people, Local 802, AFTRA — they all had to have, “What the hell did you do?”
Felix didn’t do that. We didn’t do that. Did Jimmy do that? I’m going to say
yes. Musical directors [like Felix] had nothing to do with it.
Ae13U: I know that the musical guests were
the Harts picks, but did Felix have any input there?
Mike Ratti: Stephen Stills [Episode 4]
was a favor for Felix.
Ae13U: Really? That’s news!
Mike Ratti: They were best friends
in Greenwich Village back in the early 60s. He came in to do that as a favor.
How do I know that? My path crossed with Stephen Stills when I was in LA with
Rex doing what his one of his final albums in the early/late 80s, that was
right after Hot Hero, and I was in an
all-night supermarket, they called it the supermarket of the stars, and who was
in line in front of me, Stephen Stills! I tapped him on the shoulder and I told
him who I was, and he said, “Yeah, I remember that show. I did that for my
buddy Felix Pappalardi. That was a favor.” So yeah, he did that as a favor for
Felix.
Stephen Stills performing “Sugar Babe” on episode 4 of Hot Hero Sandwich.
____________________________________________________
Concluding Thoughts
As Mike Ratti
details above, the Rock and Roll road is a rough one. Success can lead to
failure, tragedy to opportunity, and along the way are the suits who will sell
you out for the next big thing. So, why would anyone willingly go through
this?
Well, for over
40 years the memory of Hot Hero Sandwich
has been sustained by the performances of the band. No records, cassettes, or
singles. No VHS, CDs, or DVDs, just music that was played over tiny TV speakers
and then forgotten — except that it wasn’t. Probably every Hot Hero fan could
recall the theme song, or the other songs, long before the internet. It's a credit to the songwriters, the band, and Felix Pappalardi.
That’s not just music. That, true believers, is magic — and it doesn’t come in a suit.
● ● ●
For more Mike Ratti tales, please visit Hot Hero Sandwich — On the Flip Side with Drummer Mike Ratti, Part I.
UPDATE: The Hot Hero Sandwich Project has moved to its new home at www.hotherosandwich.com. All new posts after July 2024 will be posted only to www.hotherosandwich.com.
After over 50 years of listening to the music of the 60s and 70s I finally have an understanding, and a new respect, for what the musicians had to go through. Thanks for your great stories and your career Mike R. Thoroughly enjoyed the interview. Look forward to enjoying the vids.
ReplyDeleteSomething how kismet, or fate, plays a part here in the firing/hiring of Mike and the HHS band. Of course, it took a lot of hard work too which this article helps us lay people to appreciate. Well done.
ReplyDelete